Marvelous plans…

I haven’t ‘reviewed’ Iron Man, because I don’t have anything else to say that hasn’t been said. It’s not perfect, but it’s extremely good, probably the best Marvel (and thus to me, the most important) superhero movie this side of Spider-Man II. Robert Downey Jr. was the dead solid perfect choice to play Tony Stark, to that extent that no one would have been better, and quite nearly any one would have been less.

Probably the film’s one exceedingly minor flaw is that that second half doesn’t build into something greater than the first half. Oddly, the origin part of the movie, usually a narrative stumbling block that needs to be gotten past, is here the best, most exciting part of the film. That’s a small beer complaint, though, and there’s no reason to think the second Iron Man won’t be even better than the first. Indeed, the canny groundwork they’ve already laid to update the Mandarin for modern consumption looks to be progressing nicely.

In fact, it’s those plans that have raised my interest to a profound new degree. Marvel’s plans for their franchise films are not only more ambitious than I would have thought, but farther along than I would have expected. Unlike DC, Marvel has tended in the past to rent out its characters to whatever film studio wanted them. (DC is owned by Warner’s, hence all the characters are kept in-house.) Even now, Sony has the rights to Spider-Man, Columbia (I think) to the Fantastic Four…although after the way they completely screwed the pooch on that, I expect they’ll eventually let the FF rights return to Marvel, at which point maybe we’ll see a good FF movie.

Still, as media started consolidating, and smarting at the peanuts they received from Sony’s billion dollar Spider-Man film franchise, Marvel decided to take a huge gamble and make their own films. They got themselves a five hundred million dollar line of credit, and are now going to finance (and thus keep a lion’s share of any profits) their own movies. Obviously, with Iron Man, they are off to a dynamite start, both critically and financially. Indeed, Iron Man has the highest aggregate positive score at Rottentomatoes.com of any studio film this year, superhero film or no.

However, the much winked at post-credit teaser at the end of Iron Man (which suggests, along with the last line of the film proper, that they will be borrowing heavily from Marvel’s revamped and updated “Ultimates” universe) suggests that the upcoming slate of films due over the next three years are going to basically be part of one larger whole. Frankly, this is the most ambitious superhero media project aside from Bruce Timm’s twenty year line of interconnected DC cartoon shows* that themselves formed a discrete version of the DC universe. One, I would argue, that is perhaps the most successful version of that universe ever.

[*Batman: The Animated Series; Superman: The Animated Series; Batman Beyond; Static Shock; Justice League; Justice League Unlimited.]

Rumors are rife that Tony Stark will make a cameo in the upcoming Hulk movie, for instance. Then, next year, Marvel takes a breather. This is annoying but essential, since they didn’t know how Iron Man or the Hulk would be received. Of course, Iron Man is already a worldwide hit, which can only help the Hulk movie, so they should be in good shape.

So skipping 2009, we look at the summer of 2010. (Hard to believe that’s only two years off, isn’t it?) Marvel cannily stays with their now established franchise, kicking off their next double summer bill with Iron Man II. This will actually come out in late April, indicating that the ‘summer’ season continues to grow, as it did with the fairly recent addition of May to that ‘seasonal’ block. This will be followed by the June 4th release of Thor. Yet what really brought me to terms with the scope of Marvel’s plans was this: “In a conference call this morning, Marvel Studios’ David Maisel said that Iron Man 2 will be used to introduce Thor.” Even assuming Thor only gets a cameo there, it’s still mind-blowing to me to think of how much actually plan to connect these films.

No word on the plot of Thor, yet, although rumor has it the script is fantastic. The big question is whether Thor’s first adventure will mainly take place on Earth, or instead be a Lord of the Rings-style fantasy up in Asgard. We’ll see.

However, that’s just the beginning. One year later, in 2011, we get another summer double whammy. Captain America will come out on May 6th of that year, followed by a July release for The Avengers, a group movie that will bring all of the heroes together in one film.

Personally, my hope would be (although I’d be glad to be wrong, if the movies are good) that the Thor movie would introduce his evil godling brother Lokie; that Cap’s movie would take place pretty much entirely in World War II, and end with him getting frozen, and that the Avengers movie would basically follow the plot of the first issue of the comic book The Avengers, and include also the event of The Avengers #4, in which the frozen body of Captain America was found and he was revived in the modern era. (If they do this, expect groundwork to be laid, maybe flashes of a Captain America documentary on a TV in the background of one of the other movies, or something.)

However, the real reason to follow the plot of Avengers #1 is that it would mean an extended fight between Iron Man and Thor (and Ant Man and the Wasp, possibly; even Cap, if they decide to bring him in earlier in this timeline) and the Hulk, which would hands down be the coolest thing ever in movie history. (Until Marvel gets the FF back and we get a Hulk/Thing battle.)

By the way, Marvel, ironically you are totally dicking up on your line of original animated movies, to the point that production on them seems to have all but stopped. Drop me a line, I’ll be glad to give you some ideas on that. In the meantime, though, Make Mine Marvel. Excelsior!

Meanwhile, please allow me to invite my more inane nerd brethren brother to buy a big can of shut-up juice. Dweeby conversations are occurring all over the net, suggesting what megastar—Brad Pitt, Russell Crowe—should be cast as Captain America. (And the worrying has also begun that Cap might not be—gasp—blond.)

Uh, yeah, because Robert Downey Jr. and Edward Norton are mega-stars. Here’s the thing. The stars of these movies are the characters, not the actors. Paying $20 million to a guy to play Cap rather than putting that money up on the screen is a retarded notion. One, I should note, entirely motivated by the pathetic and utterly misplaced notion that wide success of superhero movies must mean that reading comics is thus retroactively proven to have been ‘cool’ and that thus nerds are vindicated as having been themselves triumphantly cool all along.* Ah, my nerdy brothers, when will you learn? Marvel’s not picking ‘names’, per se, for these movies. They are getting, first, really good actors, and second, really good actors who fit the parts to a T. Let them get about their business, they’re doing it right so far.

[*Another manifestation of this sort of thinking is the oft expressed surprise that a “second stringer” superhero like Iron Man would make it so big with the general public. Uhm, that’s because the general public is ‘into’ Superman and Batman and Spider-Man as comic book characters about 5% more than they are all the zillions of superheroes they never heard about. They saw the Iron Man movie previews and thought, “That looks cool!” There are only tens of thousands of people in the country who go to these movies because they actually read comics and want to see them translated to the screen. Seriously, do people think The Transformers movie was a gigantic worldwide hit because the majority of its audience was made up of former watchers of the cartoon show?]
  • ericb

    Matthew McConaughey as Captain America?

    http://www.darkhorizons.com/news08/080506j.php

    *shudder*

  • sardu

    Marvelous plans…

    I see what you did there *g*

  • The Rev. D.D.

    You’d think they’d learn from past successes that you don’t need big names, but people who can inhabit the role and make it work.
    Tobey Maguire and Alfred Molina. Household names? No. Did great as Spidey and Doc Ock? Yes.
    In FF, people talk about the nice job Michael Chiklis did as the Thing…and how nice Jessica Alba looked in her costume as Invisible Woman.
    And (I think) the penultimate example…Ron Perlman’s absolutely pitch-perfect work as Hellboy. Say what you will about the movie (I love Hellboy and I’ll admit it’s not great), but I’ve yet to see a single complaint about the casting and performance there, and Ron Perlman is definitely no Brad Pitt (in more ways than one), for which we should all be glad.

    As far as Cap goes, any suggestions? I’m not coming up with any good ones yet…

  • Ericb

    I know he’s a big name and is probably too expensive but I could picture Matt Damon making a good Captain.

  • I agree you could do a lot worse than Damen, but again, do you really want to foul the Avengers nest with such a bigger star? And yes, salary would certainly be an issue.

    Cap’s hard because he has to be really, really physically impressive, yet agile, and needs to be a good actor to boot. In fact, in a perfect sense he would be as big as a football player, but move like a gymnast or martial artist.

  • Matthew McConaughey as Captain America?

    *shudder*

    That can’t be true. Wasn’t that a throwaway gag from the Ultimates comic?

    THAT CAN’T BE TRUUUEEEEE!!!!

  • By the way, my vote for Captain America goes for Mark Wahlberg. He’s got that All-America aura about him, and he’s got a decent build, to boot.

    Failing that, Joaquin Phoenix.

    Yes, I did love the movie “We Own The Night,” how did you know?

  • Fox Cutter

    I bet that whom ever gets to be Caption America it will be someone we never thought of, but will right away nod and realize that the casting is spot on.

  • FC — Which is exactly what happened with Downey and Norton. As long as they keep thinking that way (good actor; right for part) rather than Get a Name (Nicholas Cage as Johnny Blaze!), these movies should continue being good.

  • I apologize to whoever left a message on this thread that I accidentally deleted. For some reason it ended up in my ‘check’ queue, and I inadvertently deleted it along with the zillion of spam messages I’ve gotten recently. Sorry.

  • Aussiesmurf

    Thoughts regarding Captain America casting :

    (1) A younger Jack Thompson (Breaker Morant, Attack of the Clones) would have been perfect.

    (2) I wouldn’t worry about someone who is already a perfect physical specimen. Chris Reeve was the proverbian 98-pounder before her worked out for Superman.

    (3) I agree with the others, who have mentioned that a good actor is priority over a ‘star’ – cf Christian Bale and the others that have been mentioned.

  • Plissken79

    Sony owns the rights to Spider Man and Ghost Rider, Spider Man 4 is a certainty, Ghost Rider 2 is not. Fox owns the rights to X-Men, Daredevil, and the FF. Besides X-Men, with the Wolverine movie coming out next summer, I think those series are spent. Universal still owns the rights to the Hulk for this year, hence a Hulk movie this sumer.
    So Marvel has an excellent chance to get the rights back to all of their characters except Spider Man and perhaps the X-Men.
    I agree with the casting idea of Mark Wahlberg as Captain America, he is an excellent actor and looks the part. An Avengers film with Downey, Norton, and Wahlberg would have an impressive lineup.
    Here is a question for everyone, assuming the Mandarin is introduced in Iron Man II and Loki shows up in the Thor film, who would be the villian in the Avengers film? Red Skull? Ultron?

  • TheMark

    If you wanted to determine who would make a great Captain America, you would first have to start with who Cap is. What are his defining personality traits.

    Robert Downey Jr. worked as Stark because he could pull off the devil may care/seat of the pants nature of Stark. Ed Norton always seems sad, which is why he makes a good choice for Banner.

    I would start (if I knew the character well enough) with one or two phrases that define the character personality wise, then find an actor who naturally filled that role.

  • Well, the Mandarin has already been introduced…he’s the bald, terrorist leader. That his organization is called “Ten Rings” is the most obvious clue. Second, the first issue of the Avengers featured Loki framing the Hulk for various crimes, in an attempt to pit Thor against him and hopefully bring about Thor’s destruction. However, Loki was flummoxed when various other superheroes (Iron Man, Ant Man and the Wasp) showed up too, and they discovered that the Hulk was innocent–after a huge fight, of course. Assuming Loki is established in the Thor film, I don’t see any reason to rejigger that plot in any major way.

  • Plissken79

    I think Faran Tahir’s character, called Raza in
    the film, was supposed to be one of the Mandarin’s
    underlings, not the Mandarin himself, as I thought
    his last scene was fairly clear

    (SPOILER)
    that Iron Monger’s goons shot him. Also, I think a Chinese actor should be cast as Iron Man’s #1 adversary, perhaps Chow Yun-Fat?

    If the Hulk movie is half as good as Iron Man, Marvel is in for a heck for summer. With The Dark Knight and Helloby 2 also looking impressive, this could be the best comic book summer of all time

  • SPOILER

    Well, we don’t *see* him being shot, so I fully expect him back next film. And I think the filmmakers will stay away from making the Mandarin explicitly Asian, because of the racism thing. Which I’m not saying would be justified, but I just can’t imagine them wanting to deal with it.

  • Ericb

    I’m not a comics person myself but Marvel’s plan does look pretty ambitious and if they pull off even half of it it would be an impressive achievement. I can see people in 50 years time calling this the golden age of super hero movies.

  • Jimmy

    It might seem a little strange if they do have character called The Mandarin and he isn’t Asian. I’ll still be interested to see how they pull off the character with the racial an campiness issues.

  • “It might seem a little strange if they do have character called The Mandarin and he isn’t Asian.”

    Frankly, I’m not sure if 10% of American under the age of 40 have ever even heard the word ‘mandarin’, so maybe not so much.

  • Ericb

    and if they do have they probably think of little oranges

  • BeckoningChasm

    Lots of good points being made. I just want to say that if they make a Thor movie and set the whole thing in Asgard…well, that seems completely pointless. One of the central ideas behind Thor is his interaction with the human world; take that away and you’ve got (as suggested) LotR IV with no built-in audience.

  • I think I read somewhere (IMDB, I think) where there had originally been plans to introduce Mandarin in the first Iron Man movie as an Indonesian terrorist.

    I think they can still run with it.

    Perhaps they could have Mandarin be the leader of the Ten Rings. And perhaps he could have chosen his name to hearken back to ancient glories, in the same way Saddam Hussein used to name his military units to remind everyone of the ancient Babylonians.

    Speculation: it’s half the fun!

  • BC — There’s no built in audience for Thor in any case; he’s too obscure. Execution is the big thing. If the film looks cool, fantasy or earthly superhero film whichever, people will go to see it. I really think that ‘pre-sold’ thing is highly overrated. No offense to Tolkein or Lewis, but there aren’t enough readers of either to explain why LotR and Narnia were hits. They just looked like good movies, and people were ready for high fantasy.

    Even if the Thor movie is majorly on Earth–and I have trouble envisioning that the film will revolve around Thor will be fighting the Absorbing Man, or the Gray Gargoyle, or Mr. Hyde & the Cobra (good rogue’s gallery, though), as long as they include Loki to set up the Avengers film, I’ll be happy.

    Unless the movie sucks. Hopefully it won’t.

  • BeckoningChasm

    I guess the thing about Thor though, is that he’s a Norse god with super-powers. Putting him in a setting with other Norse gods, all of whom also have super-powers, seems to dilute the guy’s impact. Not saying you couldn’t have a good Thor movie set in Asgard, but it’s like having a Hulk movie where he’s Bruce Banner the whole time.

  • Except that Thor is the biggest badass in Asgard. So it’s more like a Schwarzennegger action flick. I don’t think watching Thor pummel the hell out of squads of other godlings, frost giants, the Midgard Serpent and the like would be boring.