Merry Marvel Bitching Society…

I’m always kind of surprised (but depressed) at the proclivity of people to spend others’ money. I see this all the time on, for instance, Cubs messages boards. A perennial assumption is that the owners of the Cubs have an infinite amount of money to spend because the team is a “cash cow,” or some similar formulation. People will even say things, and quite often, along the lines of “I guarantee they have the money,” an assertion I find bewilderingly meaningless on several levels.

Marvel Films has taken a similar amount of beating from ‘fans’ because they’ve been playing hardball to an extent with salaries on their upcoming movies. To these fans, Marvel should lay out whatever the talent wants, because, we are again assured, “they have the money.” (Also because companies are invariable ‘greedy,’ while ‘artists’ automatically deserve whatever number of millions they desire without accruing even the slightest moral taint.)

Of course, if Marvel makes a movie that bombs and turns out to have an overly huge budget—and somehow Warners spent about $300 million making Superman Returns, to put things in perspective—then the same people would mock them on that basis.

Marvel definitely got things off to a good start with Iron Man, and 2010’s Iron Man II seems an almost sure hit. However, The Incredible Hulk did middling business at best, and likely only went (slightly) into the black after DVD sales were taken into account. With Marvel now spending their own money to make these movies, and with highly questionable properties like Thor, Captain America and even The Avengers coming to theaters in addition to Iron Man II, well. The outcomes range from the very good (everything makes money) to the very bad (everything but Iron Man II bombs, and Marvel’s foray into the film business ends up a company-busting fiasco).

In order to limit the downside, Marvel rightly is trying to hold costs to roughly $150 million a picture, which is about what Iron Man cost. In the long run, this benefits everyone, even the fans, because (comparatively) lower budgets mean a greater chance of success, which translates to, eventually, more movies. And after all, as Iron Man demonstrates, we’re not talking about Marvel cheaping out. We’re talking about them keeping their eyes on the prize and putting the money where they think it will do the most good, which is up on the screen.

Even so, a string of such stories had fans beating on Marvel pretty hard for a while. First, Iron Man co-star Terrence Howard was replaced by Don Cheadle for Iron Man 2. Fans, needless to say, went nuts on their insular message boards, even though why the hell anyone would care that much was left unanswered. I mean, really, was Terrence Howard that big of a part of Iron Man‘s success?

Few spoke up to suggest that maybe Marvel’s actions were soundly motivated, and maybe critics should wait until the facts were out until they beat on the company that gave them such a great movie in the first place. (I was one of these cautioners, and took some amount of abuse in the process.)

Eventually the facts did emerge, and it turned out that what Marvel did made total sense. Howard’s salary on Iron Man was weirdly and inappropriately huge, we learned, and he didn’t want to take a pay cut to make his salary more in line with his role’s importance. Moreover, it was strongly rumored that the film’s director found Howard’s work unsatisfactory. In the aftermath of these revelations, though, formerly bitching fans failed to acknowledge their unfairness and instead just jumped on the next story.

Soon we heard that Mickey Rourke was up for a role in Iron Man II, followed by the news that Marvel was offering him such a ‘small’ amount of money that he might pass up the part. This brought further storms of outrage, because, we were again assured, “Marvel has the money.” Fans suddenly decided that Rourke’s participation was essential, and that Marvel should just throw at Rourke whatever amount of money he wanted so as to ensure he signed up. Budgets, smudgets.

Worse, and admittedly this sounded actually bad for a while, Samuel L. Jackson was making noise about not returning as Nick Fury. The whole interesting, even potentially fascinating, part of Marvel’s blueprint for these films is that they were, in fact, one connected whole. Each superhero would get his own solo movie (or two), and then The Avengers movie would bring them all together. Nothing like this has ever been tried before, and the one thing tying all the movies together was Jackson’s Nick Fury, the spymaster who will eventually bring the “Avengers Initiative” into being. Losing him would have truly sucked.

So Jackson postured for more money (as is his right), and the fans (surprise) completely took his side and further excoriated Marvel for their miserliness. Which is fine, but I must admit it would be nice if such ‘fans’ calmed down and admitted they were kind of acting like dicks after further developments ensued. For instance, Jackson has now signed to play Fury in up to nine (!) more movies, starting presumably with Iron Man 2, and perhaps including a film revolving entirely around SHEILD, the spy organization he oversees.

And just now, it turns out, not only has Mickey Rourke indeed signed on to play (probably) the ex-Soviet villain Crimson Dynamo for Iron Man II, but so has Scarlett Johannson to play the Black Widow. Now fans will bitch about that, albeit for better reasons—Johannson really doesn’t seem the right actress to play the Widow. (Especially since the character could factor into several of the later movies, especially The Avengers.) This seems, on the face of it, the sort of dumbass, ‘hire the hottest star regardless of whether they fit the part’ thinking that Marvel has successfully avoided up to now. Who knows, though, maybe she’ll surprise me.

Even so, I ‘guarantee’ that if it came out that if the story had come out that she was offered the role and turned it down because Marvel wouldn’t meet her price, many of the same folks now complaining about how inappropriate she is would have gladly taken that opportunity to castigate Marvel. Here’s hoping Marvel can screen out the noise factor and just go about their business, at least to the extent that they continue to focus *gasp* on making the films as good as possible.

  • BeckoningChasm

    Some people will always find things to be unhappy about. Give them a steak dinner and they’ll complain that there was too much salt on the french fries.

  • Hasimir Fenring

    Terrence Howard was replaced by Don Cheadle…why the hell anyone would care that much was left unanswered

    Not to mention…Is this a bad trade? Isn’t this like replacing Keira Knightley with Helena Bonham Carter? Terrence Howard is essentially famous for one very good performance in a meh film that won a Best Picture Oscar just to show how worthless that award continues to be, and from what I’ve gathered Howard isn’t the easiest professional to work with. Cheadle is always good even in supporting roles like, well, Howard’s role in Iron Man and even in outright bad films like Mission to Mars, and he’s also does excellent work in lead performances.

  • MarshallDog

    “This seems, on the face of it, the sort of dumbass, ‘hire the hottest star regardless of whether they fit the part’ thinking that Marvel has successfully avoided up to now.”

    What about Jessica Alba in Fantastic Four? I guess you could say that because Marvel was working with another studio it wasn’t really their call. It’s not like a better actress would have saved that movie anyway.

    I was actually happy with Don Cheadle’s casting. I just like him more than Terrance Howard. I’m probably the wrong person to ask… didn’t really like Iron Man all that much and probably won’t see the sequel in the theater. It’s kinda funny that I forgot Sam Jackson was in that movie- I think that shows how into it I was.

  • bt

    Marshall, if I remember correctly, Jackson didn’t show up until after the end credits, so it’s very possible you left the theater or turned off the DVD well before Jackson showed up.

  • “What about Jessica Alba in Fantastic Four?”

    Completely different situation. Marvel had sold the rights to FF to Sony, who had complete control over the film. Now Marvel is funding this series of movies themselves (and can do so for any character not currently tied to another studios, as is the FF and Spider-Man), so they themselves are making such decisions.

    Given the general fidelity of Iron Man to the comics, I think we can assume a Marvel-produced FF film would have been MARKEDLY different.

  • ERicb

    I was kind of mystified by the whole Terrence Howard controversy. Frankly I’d never heard of the guy before Iron Man and thought Cheadle was the more famous actor.

  • Joe11

    I think Don Cheadle is an upgrade over Howard both in acting & salary. Maybe Howard as Jim Rhodes was 1 of the reasons why Sandy Petersen hated Iron Man. As for Rourke, I thought he deserved the Best Actor Oscar for The Wrestler, but he doesn’t deserve a fill in the blank type check for his next film. Come on, for the last 15 years, nobody gave a damn about him.

    “What about Jessica Alba in Fantastic Four?”

    I can think of even 2 better(worst?) examples.

    Ben “J-Lo” Affleck in DareDevil & Nicholas FREAKIN Cage in Ghost Rider. Talk about horrible miscasting!

  • fish eye no miko

    I agree with others about the Howard/Cheadle thing–how is this a bad thing…? And, frankly, I DO get annoyed when actors–especially those in small roles–start demanding more money for sequels. Wait, let me clarify: ASKING for more money = ok. Being a pissy little diva who whines about not getting his way if said salary increase is declined = GTFO.

  • Aussiesmurf

    My father always taught me that the key to any negotiation is being prepared to walk away from the deal if necessary.

    Ken has already in a previous post referred to Tobey Maguire being absolutely bitch-slapped when he tried to play hardball over Spider-Man 2. I gather that Jake Gyllenhall was plugged into the role before his jaw could hit the floor.

    If T. Howard decided that he didn’t want to play the role unless he was paid x dollars, and then walked away when that salary wasn’t met, then its not for me to second-guess him. I guess time will tell, although at first glance it would appear that he missed an easy payday.

    I personally much prefer Don Cheadle’s work, and he’s done excellent supporting work in the Ocean’s movies, with a brilliant performance in the lead in Hotel Rwanda.

  • sardu

    Amen to the Don Cheadle sentiments. He’s a terrific actor and between him and Downey you’ve got arguably more sheer acting talent than just about any genre film previous to this. And guys like Rourke, and Jackson, who have decent acting chops and are also cooler than dammit… yeah, cheers to Marvel for hiring actors, not just stars. Most studios would just be out there banking on friggin’ Keanu Reeves and Will Smith, as per usual…

  • Reed

    Actually, I think that casting Scarlett Johanson as the Black Widow could rock if (and this is a big if) they write the character as she originally appeared in Iron Man. She was not an ass kicking super hero, she was a femme fatale villainess who used her sexuality to dupe other characters (like Hawkeye) into doing her bidding. She would be perfect as the eeeeevil gubment spook who had Whiplash in her sexual thrall, and in turn is enough of a player to give playboy Tony Stark a run for his money in sexual politics.

    She would also rock in the Black Widow’s body suit.

  • A more passive Widow? Sorry, dude. It’s Joss Wheden’s world; we just live here.

  • Reed

    Will Smith is… The Black Panther!
    Keanu Reeves is… Dr. Henry Pym, the Ant Man/Giant Man/Goliath/Yellowjacket!
    Liv Tyler is… The Wasp!

  • Tim

    Isn’t Liv Tyler Betty Ross?
    People just love to complain, no matter what. If you think this is bad, you should check out the Internet Wrestling Community. They complain nonstop how terrible wrestling is and how Vince McMahon is by himself causing global warming, yet they watch multiple times a week and spend money on pay-per-views, and *obsess* over “backstage” details.
    I’m not liking SJ as the black widow, mostly because I think she’s not a very good actress, and skates by on the wonderbra method.
    Marvel made money on the Hulk. Tally up overseas, dvd, tv rights, merchandising, video game licenses, and I’d bet they’re comfortably in the black. Punisher: War Zone, probably not so much.
    There are rumors floating around that the studios want to reboot Fantastic Four and Daredevil, dropping pretty much everyone and everything from the first tries, and go the Dark Knight route.

  • “There are rumors floating around that the studios want to reboot Fantastic Four and Daredevil, dropping pretty much everyone and everything from the first tries, and go the Dark Knight route.”

    Yeah, well, Dark Knight is fine and even fitting for Daredevil, given the Frank Miller connection, but not for Fantastic Four, which should be more just fun. The problem with Sony’s two FF is that they sucked ass, not that they weren’t ‘dark’ enough.

  • Iron Man 2 is shaping up to have a stellar cast; plus Jon Favreau always does a great job

  • Tork_110

    How do you argue with people who think that 150 million dollars isn’t enough? I avoid arguments but if I was talking to these goons I would have lost my patience pretty quickly.